As two of the biggest heroes in the DC Universe take on each other on the big screen, t2 plays Lex Luthor and gets the two fandoms to face off on who is the better ‘Man’.

Batting for Batman — Abhishek Bhatia and Boidurjya Ganguly, second-year, Asutosh College

Squaring off for Superman — Akash Chowdhury, second-year, Asutosh College; Siddhartha Bose, second-year, St. Xavier’s College

t2: When it’s Batman versus Superman, who do you think will win?

Boidurjya: Batman of course! He is proficient and he survives everything, whether it is the Son of Krypton or the slayer of the Son of Krypton.

Abhishek: Batman is ready for anything. It is not like Batman hasn’t thought that Superman might go rogue at some point and he is not ready for it. And that has happened quite a lot of times in the comics. Batman has defeated Superman, with help and at times without. 

Akash: Superman is the kind of person who wins at any cost to protect everyone. If Batman goes rogue or his method of operating is wrong, Superman will oppose him. He can destroy Batman with minimum force.

Siddhartha: I think any character is as strong as the author wants him to be. There has been a long debate about who is stronger ever since Frank Miller wrote The Dark Knight Returns. Superman is definitely the most iconic character ever in comic book literature. He is more important to the DC multiverse. Batman has just been glorified because he is the highest-selling character in the times we live in.

t2: So, who’s the better guy?

Siddhartha: Bruce Wayne/Batman should be at Arkham Asylum with Joker, Scarecrow and the rest. Bruce Wayne is a psychopath.

Boidurjya: Superman did not have to become Superman, he was born Superman.

Akash: Batman is human trying to be God.

Boidurjya: Batman is not trying to be God. He’s trying to be a legend.

Siddhartha: I think Batman definitely has a God complex.

Akash: Yes, he does. He tries to control everyone.

Boidurya: In the Tower of Babel storyline, Batman defeats all.

Siddhartha: That was written to please Batman and Batman fans.

Boidurjya: Bruce Wayne/Batman is a complicated person. He has many issues, but he is not a bad person. He tries do what is right in his mind.

Superman is easy to manipulate. He has been manipulated a lot of times. Not to say that Batman has not been. Many villains like Joker and Scarecrow have tried to manipulate Batman to do a lot of things, but mentally Batman is stronger. He has a lot of things to deal with, he has issues, he has complexes, he is an insomniac. We see in many situations, he has been pushed to the absolute limit of what a human body can take. At the end of the day he is human, which is the reason for debate. Superman gets his power from the sun and because Krypton’s gravity was 406 times stronger than Earth’s, he can fly. All we have to do is punch stronger and block the sun so that Superman does not get his power.

Siddhartha: If you cover the sun, it will only drain him.

Akash: What will happen if we give the polio virus to Batman?

Siddhartha: Ya! I mean come on, to establish Batman as the alpha male by eliminating the sun is too much.

Abhishek: That did happen!

Siddhartha: But that was to level the playing field. It did not give Batman the victory.

Boidurjya: But Batman did beat Superman in The Dark Knight Returns.

Siddhartha: And died himself!

Boidurjya: He did not die, it was self-induced. Batman could have killed him right there, but he did not because he is not that kind of a person. He needs Superman, he knows that.

Abhishek: He won’t cross that limit.

Boidurjya: It was like telling Superman this is the line, don’t cross it.

Siddhartha: If you are talking about morality, Bruce Wayne doesn’t really have a strong sense of morality, clearly because of the criminals he deals with. Superman, despite everything, still has a clear sense of morality.

Akash: In Gotham, Batman thinks he is the judge, jury and executioner.

Boidurjya: Batman does not kill, he does not even kill The Joker. He uses non-lethal bullets and stuff to get out of situations. 

Batman is all about working outside the system to make the system better. Superman is all about working in the system to make it better. Which is better is debatable. You can’t always go into the system to make it right.

Superman is always under orders. Do this, do that. Stop a war in Russia. Batman didn’t take part in the war because it is none of his business. His business is crime and corruption in Gotham, which he eradicates in his own way.

Akash: He is making Gotham better in his own vision.

Boidurjya: But Gotham is a better place.

Akash: People are scared to get out of their houses at night because of Batman.

Boidurjya: You think people aren’t scared of Superman?

Akash: They are afraid but they have seen Superman helping, they have not seen Batman helping.

Boidurjya: You are not meant to see Batman helping.

Abhishek: That is the whole point of Batman.

Siddhartha: If you want to talk about Superman’s moral fabric, think about this — Batman’s parents died, Superman’s world collapsed! He is the last of his race and then he comes here and he is damned to be alone. He cannot hold a prolonged relationship with anybody.

Boidurjya: Batman is more alienated. He is human but he still can’t mix with other humans.

Siddhartha: Both suffer, but look at how both treat their tragedies. See how  differently these tragedies have affected them. Superman, despite going through all of that stuff, is still a diplomat, a public figure. He feels accountable to the people he saves. Batman delivers his own justice because he thinks he does not owe anything to anybody because of what he went through.

Boidurjya: But Superman has this innate repressive nature to control the people.
Siddhartha: So does Batman.

Boidurjya: But he doesn’t do it.

t2: In terms of strength, who wins?

Everyone: Superman!

Boidurjya: Definitely. No contest. He has more power. He is the God of the DC Universe. He is the fulcrum on which every story hangs. Every story depends on either him getting manipulated, or manipulating or destroying things. But it is always Batman who comes up with the solution. Even in the Justice storyline by Alex Ross, Batman gives a serum to everyone which gives all of them Superman’s powers, even The Joker.

Akash: Let’s just say in the DC Universe, Superman is the strongest there is.

Boidurjya: But Batman is the toughest there is.

Siddhartha: Batman shows he is tough, Superman never does.

Akash: Batman has to show he is tough because the minute he shows any kind of weakness, he will die.

Abhishek: Deep down Superman is a really nice guy, which Batman is not, so Batman gets the upper hand against Superman in a lot of things.

Boidurjya: Brainiac beat Superman. He is a robot with no powers. Lex Luthor beat Superman. He is like Batman, you know, just bald and a bad person. So who beat Superman? Everyone!

Abhishek: Even Poison Ivy controlled Superman!

Siddhartha: Batman is a jock on steroids.

Akash: Bane broke Batman’s back in Knightfall. Think what Superman can do.

Akash: Superman controls his powers. He has uncontrollable powers, so he uses mental blocks. In some of the comic storylines, the Kryptonite weakness is actually psychological.

Boidurjya: Superman has powers and he uses them but he is not a fighter. He is a helper. You see him saving a NASA rocket, right!

Akash: Batman can’t save a NASA rocket from falling to the ground.

Boidurjya: He can’t but he can build a better one!

t2: If you were Batman and you had to defeat Superman, what would you have done?

Akash: Kryptonite.

Siddhartha: By sheer strength you can’t.

Boidurjya: Well, I am Bruce Wayne. I have power plants under my name. So I take Superman to a power plant, expose him to radiation, he becomes weak. And then I have my suit that makes me thousand times stronger than a normal human being. I punch him relentlessly. He dies. I win.

Abhishek: I would take examples from the comics. Superman isn’t even sure if he’ll be good for the rest of his life. Superman gives Batman a ring of Kryptonite, saying if I ever go rogue, just use it on me. So, when Superman actually goes rogue, when he is manipulated by Joker, Batman uses the Kryptonite.

Boidurjya: To be very honest, there is no straightforward way to defeat Superman, if you are Batman. If you are Batman, you do what Batman does! You plan it, you execute it, you manipulate him.

t2: In terms of support system, who is better off?

Siddhartha: Batman definitely. Superman has nobody. Superman has Lois Lane, who he keeps having a fallout with. And he has Kara Zor-El, who keeps appearing in the canon literature every couple of years. That’s it! That’s the ethos of Superman literature, the fact that this man is completely alone and still does not give in.

Boidurjya: Yes, Batman has a lot of help but they are not always the best because his villains are always better than that. The one reason Superman doesn’t have anybody on his side is because of the way he operates.

Siddhartha: He is too powerful for anyone else to come and help him. He is damned by his own power.

t2: Who has better villains?

Everyone: Definitely Batman.

Boidurjya: The Batman series has been defined by incredible villains. Amazing writing too. That is something the Superman series lacks in the modern times.

Siddhartha: The greatest Superman comic that came out in the last couple of years is All-Star Superman. That comic had no villains. It was just a beautiful account of what Superman’s life is like.

Boidurjya: That was nice. Superman actually has a very interesting life but it won’t appeal to people as much as Batman’s. Batman’s anarchy and the kind of dark, edgy character he is appeals to people. The Batman series is better written. The Superman series has its high points, but the fandom comes from the presentation of the character and Superman has not been presented that well.

t2: Who do you think has a better alter ego?

Boidurjya: Bruce Wayne is a much larger-than-life alter ego.

Akash: He acts as a millionaire playboy. Clark Kent is a normal person.

Boidurjya: Both of them act.

Siddhartha: I think Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne, the two personas, are critics of the society that these two belong in. Bruce Wayne, the playboy philanthropist part, that’s a critique of the society Bruce inhabits and Clark Kent is  the inferior Beta male.

You cannot relate to Superman but you can relate to Clark Kent; you can relate to Batman but you can’t relate to Bruce Wayne. So the alter egos are just the opposites.

t2: Who is more popular — Batman or Superman?

Siddhartha: In this postmodern age, everybody likes very dark, meta stuff. People don’t like Superman anymore — one, because of its aesthetics; two, because there has been a growing appreciation for characters like Batman and The Punisher.

Boidurjya: In the society we live in, we can see Batman everywhere. When Batman fights, we can see ourselves fighting. On the streets we can get mugged, we can get murdered. Batman fights against that.

Abhishek: You cannot relate to Superman. When you are being mugged you can’t imagine using heat vision, can you? But you can imagine punching like Batman.

Boidurjya: If I get trained and have a lot of money, I can be Batman. I can never be Superman, no matter how much I try.

Siddhartha: I get that you can’t relate to Superman but then again I cannot relate to Plato either, doesn’t mean I don’t read him. Superman is conceptually so brilliant.

Boidurjya: Superman is definitely the first telling of the meta-humans, he was the first superhero. Batman is a normal man with abnormal problems. He’s a ninja with money.

t2: Is Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy responsible for Batman’s popularity?

Siddhartha: It’s not just Chris Nolan, it started with Frank Miller. Batman was just a really cool-written character but nobody cared to read the great literature that came from Superman after that because everyone was so preoccupied with how cool Batman was. Batman is cool and Superman is not!

Frank Miller’s representation of Superman was offensive to Superman fans.

Boidurjya: At first, Superman was fun. Superman was flying around, saving people. Batman was like James Bond but with a costume.

Siddhartha: The Batman mythos was the first one to embrace the dark themes and then the Superman writers realised ‘Oh! We can do the same’, but they fell short and could not gather any readership. Can you really blame Superman for the writing? He is deliberately made weak now. He is deliberately made to pander to Batman fans. You cannot deny that Superman started everything. He was at the genesis of the very idea of the American superhero.
Boidurjya: When we see the old Justice League represented, it was Superman, then Batman behind him and then Green Lantern. Here we see that Superman is still in the centre...

Siddhartha: But no one is looking at the centre anymore. Batman is like the uncrowned king. Superman is there, he is like the public face but hey, look that’s Batman! Superman is like a teacher. He is my teacher, I know, but where is the cool guy? That’s the kind of thing that’s happening.

When the battle of words raged for more than an hour, t2 stepped in and called a truce. The verdict — Superman cannot be overpowered in strength, Batman cannot be defeated in popularity.

Malancha Dasgupta of t2 sat in on the chat

I have a Batman/ Superman in me because.... Tell t2@abp.in