Dutt. Sanjay Dutt. Even at age 57 and without a film to his name in many years, the man — known as Baba to some, Munna Bhai to many —  continues to be a crowd-puller. And fan-mania was at its peak on Monday evening when Dutt walked on to the Kala Mandir stage to talk about the many mistakes of his life in Mission Life, an initiative of The Bhawanipur Education Society College in association with The Telegraph.

Over the next 40 minutes, the father of three, who has been both Munna Bhai and Khalnayak on screen, regaled the 1,000-plus-strong crowd with stories of the many ups and downs in his life — and how he beat them. And he made it fun too — from an air-guitaring stint to comparing his dancing skills to Sunny Deol’s — anchor Mir by his side.

Sanjay Dutt: First I want to thank everyone for being here tonight… thank you so much. I love you all and I hope that whatever I say here today makes a difference. 

Mir: Of course! Waise, Mishraji kaise hain?

Dutt: Mishraji? Oh achha, Mishraji! (Laughs out loud and touches the back of his head)

Mir: Main darkhwast karunga ki aap uthke dikhaiye…

[Dutt walks up to the front of the stage, turns his back to the audience and points to the blonde lock of hair at the back of his head. The audience erupts with a deafening roar] 

Dutt: Jail mein ek qaidi hai jo life sentence kar raha hai. My beard had grown quite a bit when I was in jail and one day, I requested for a razor. But then, I was told it wasn’t allowed. I was told: ‘Ek hajaam ka bandobast kar sakte hain’. Toh maine kahaa: ‘Theek hai’. One day, ek hajaam aaye jinka naam Mishraji tha. Unhonein apna ek razor nikaala aur main darr gaya… I was like: ‘Tum meri daadhi kaat-te kaat-te mera gala toh kaat nahin doge?! (Laughs) Mishraji cracks a lot of good jokes and is also a very good man. One day he told me: ‘Sanju bhaiya, hum chahte hain ki aap ek chutia banaaye’. He cut my hair and styled it into this (gestures to his lock of hair). Before I got out on parole, he told me: ‘Bhaiya, aap isko sunehri rang karke aao’. I said ‘Okay’, and for him, I have made this blonde! [The audience erupts]

Mir: So will we see this look in any of your new films?

Dutt: Depends on the director… whether he wants my blonde lock or not! (Laughs) 

Mir: If you use it, then you have to give credit in the film rolls to Mishraji.

Dutt: Bilkul, bilkul… chutia courtesy Mishraji! 

Mir: How does it feel to be a free man today? Twenty three years of turmoil… I have seen you mention this in almost all your interviews… that one must know the law of the land…

Dutt: Absolutely! I say everyone must know the law of the land, and I say this to a lot of corporate people I meet also. When I was arrested for the first time (in April 1993) and taken to the Crime Branch, M.N. Singh (former Mumbai police commissioner) told me: ‘TADA mein book karna hoga’. I had no idea what TADA was! I said: ‘Ya, okay… TADA’. Phir jab maine TADA padha toh mujhe Dada yaad aa gaya! (Everyone laughs) So that’s why I say that everyone should know about the law of their land. 

Mir: Speaking of Dada, Sourav Ganguly does a TV show called Dadagiri. Will Sanjay Dutt do a show called ‘TADAgiri?’ 

Dutt: I will only teach Gandhigiri! [The audience breaks into huge applause] 

Mir: Har Dada ka ek baap hota hai and yours was an exception. Mr Sunil Dutt... were you scared of him, intimidated by him?

Dutt: Mr Dutt raised us in a very, very normal way. Waise kabhi nahin tha ki Nargis-Sunil Dutt ka beta hai ya beti hai toh usko kuch special treatment do. I was given a second-class (train) ticket to go to college… I travelled by rickshaw. He made sure that we grew up with proper values. But he told me something very interesting that I want to share here. He asked me one day: ‘Tum meri izzat karte ho ya darte ho?’ I said, hesitatingly: ‘Izzat karta hoon’. He said: ‘Nahin, tum darte ho!’ He said you know you are doing something wrong and that’s why you are scared of me. This is something I want to tell everyone here. Whenever you are scared of anyone — parents or teachers — you will know for sure that you are doing something wrong yourself. 

Mir: Three or four days before your debut film Rocky premiered in 1981, you lost your mother to cancer. Many people say you took to drugs because you couldn’t cope with her loss...

Dutt: That’s absolutely wrong. If I say I took drugs because my mom passed away, then I am lying. I did drugs because I wanted to do it. Aaj mera kutta mar gaya toh main daaru pee loonga… mere ghar mein billi mar gayi toh maine charas lena shuru kar diya… aisa nahin hota! (Everyone claps and cheers) That’s a very lame excuse… and it’s only your choice… to do drugs or not to do drugs. 

Mir: There is a story of you going to a doctor and he holding out a list to you and asking, ‘Okay, which of these have you done?’ I would love you to narrate that story…

Dutt: (Laughs) One day, I went to my father and said: ‘Dad, I need help… I am on drugs and I need you to make me okay’. So he took me to South Miami Hospital and there was a doctor there who gave me a list of drugs and told me: ‘Just tick the ones you have done’. Toh maine woh list dekha aur bola: ‘Yaar, yeh toh sab tick karna padega!’ (Laughs) So I ticked all of them aur woh American paagal ho gaya aur mere baap ko bolta hai: ‘What does he eat?! How is he still alive?!’ He won’t understand ki hum ghee aur rabri aur yeh sab khaate hain (smiles). So, I ticked all the names that were on the list! 

Mir: Today, we have students from The Bhawanipur here. At this age, peer pressure is something they face all the time and sometimes one has to do things he or she doesn’t want to do, just because their friends are doing it. What will your advice be to them?

Dutt: As far as studies are concerned, you are the only one who can make a choice. The sky is the limit if you have a goal and work hard towards your goal… that much I can promise you. As far as drugs go, if you are doing it because your friend is doing it or because you need to impress a chick, then that’s completely wrong. Zindagi mein jo kaam ka nasha hota hai usse bada nasha koi aur nahin [the audience breaks into loud applause]. Once you reach (Rs) 100 crore… (Rs) 200 crore… (Rs) 1,000 crore… all through your hard work, that high is bigger than any high in the world. 

All I can say is that stay away from mood-altering substances. I am not saying don’t have a beer or two when you feel like… but set a time period. Chalo Saturday hai, let’s have a couple of drinks… that’s fine. But going beyond that… doing chemical substances… I would request you all to please stay away, no matter what anyone tells you. It’s not only you who will suffer, your family will too. You are responsible not only for yourself, but also for your mother, father, sister, brother….

Mir: Coffee peeyenge, sir?

Dutt: (Holds up the cup on the table in front of him) Pee rahaa hoon… (pauses) daaru nahin hai! (Everyone laughs) 

Mir: (Sniffs the cup) Vakai mein coffee hi hai! I was remembering something you were mentioning about your mother… that when a person is affected by cancer, it’s also the family that suffers. Why did you say that?

Dutt: I said that because I have seen my mom… I have seen my wife (Richa Sharma)… we struggled along with them. I remember the doctor coming up to my father and saying: ‘Let’s pull the plug on your wife’. He said: ‘I have to talk to my family’. We (Sanjay and sisters Priya and Namrata) were all very small those days and we came to a conclusion that we can’t do that. But at the same time, I now feel that we made her suffer 10 times more… because she eventually died and she suffered for those two years because of our decision… it wasn’t her decision. If the decision was hers, I don’t know what she would have done. 

Mir: If your parents were alive, I would have asked them to name their favourite Sanjay Dutt movies. But then since we have you here, what are your favourite Sanjay Dutt films?

Dutt: For me, it’s Naam, Khalnayak, Saajan, Sadak, Munna Bhai… 

Mir: Five done! But you can name more… I loved Mission Kashmir…

Dutt: Yes, Mission Kashmir was a good film….

[“Vaastav!” screams out someone from the audience] 

Dutt: Oh yes! Pachaas tola (said Raghu-style, rubbing his chin with his hand) [The audience erupts] 

Mir: Aur yeh? [Points to the gold chain around Dutt’s neck] 

Dutt: Yeh Usha (Uthup) Didi ne diya hai (points to a rosary around his neck)

Mir: (To Usha Uthup seated in the front row) Is that from the Vatican, Didi? Thank you Didi… a rosary from the Vatican blessed by the Basilica. You are also a Shiv bhakt, sir…

Dutt: I am a follower of Bholenath because he forgives everything! But don’t follow him only for that! (Everyone laughs)

Mir: I believe dancing is a big trauma for you. Don’t worry… I won’t ask you to dance today! Who according to you is a better dancer — Sanjay Dutt or Sunny Deol? [Everyone laughs] 

Dutt: One thing I can tell you… I am definitely better than Sunny Deol! (Laughs) Compared to Sunny, I am Michael Jackson, yaar! 

Mir: (Mimicking Sunny) Baba, mera insult kar diya. Dhai kilo ka taang jab Sanjay Dutt uthaata hai toh Sunny uthta nahin… uth jaata hai! [To Dutt] Main aapki bhi kar sakta hoon lekin main itni himaaqat dikhaoonga nahin...

Dutt: Please kar dijiye (laughs).

Mir: No! Maybe after the show (smiles).

Mir: I was reading about your passion for air-guitaring. I have bought a guitar specially for you today… jaise aapke wahaan pe Chor Bazaar hai… hamaare yahaan Fancy Market hai! Let me tell you all, 25 years ago in New York…

Dutt: In Atlanta…

Mir: Oh, in Atlanta… Sanjay Dutt won a gold medal in air-guitaring! So which are your favourite bands?

Dutt: I like old rock more… so I am more for Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, AC/DC…. I like a lot of Blues also… like Jeff Beck, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jimmy Page, Albert King….

Mir: You are not into Bappi Lahiri? [Mimics Bappida] The one who gave you Tamma tamma loge… your best dance performance till date? [Everyone laughs] 

Dutt: He’s responsible for making me dance, Bappida! (Laughs)

[At Mir’s request, Dutt stands up to show off his air-guitaring skills. Over the next one minute, the man known as the Deadly Dutt shows a different side to him, air-guitaring like a pro. The crowd, as expected, explodes and then wants more] 

Mir: You also learnt to play drums?

Dutt: My parents engaged a teacher for me for sometime. But by the time it got over, he had learnt more gaalis from me than I had learnt drums from him! (Laughs)  

Mir: (To the crowd)  How many of you here are fans of Munna Bhai? I am sure if given the opportunity, everyone here would love a jadoo ki jhappi from Munna Bhai! 

Dutt: Munna Bhai may be a gangster, but everyone loves him. After (Munna Bhai) MBBS, I was called by many doctors and medical institutes to talk about Munna Bhai. That’s because a doctor is such a busy person that he often forgets the personal touch. Telling a patient, ‘Don’t worry, you will be fine’ makes a lot of difference, but doctors are very busy.

That’s what Munna Bhai told doctors… that never forget the personal touch. This is a film that taught me a lot and also helped a lot of people in the medical field.

Even during Lage Raho (Munna Bhai), I read a lot of books on Gandhiji and it changed me as a person. As luck would have it, there is a Gandhi statue in Yerwada Jail (in Pune) and when I was lodged there, I would pass that statue twice a day. And I would keep telling him: ‘Abhi toh jaane de, yaar!’ Since Lage Raho, he’s been there with me. And when I left (Yerwada), I told him: ‘Thank you, Sir!’ (Laughs) 

Mir: When do we get to see you in the next Munna Bhai film?

Dutt: I made the mistake of telling my life story to Raju (Rajkumar) Hirani and so he’s making the biopic (in which Ranbir Kapoor plays Sanjay Dutt) first! (Laughs) And Munna Bhai, they have started writing it, so hopefully we will start shooting in 2018 and in 2019, you will get to see ‘Munna Bhai 3’. 

Mir: In the meantime, what else will we see you in?

Dutt: I need films with a good storyline. I can’t be a hero anymore who runs around trees! I can’t sing and dance with these young girls, but I am now doing films that suit my age. There’s Bhoomi, Malang, Ajay’s (Devgn) comedy film, there’s Pathan… lots of films in the pipeline. 

Mir: Before we proceed, I have a gift for you… I have wrapped it in a black cloth. It’s a very interesting gift and this will take us further into the chat…

[Dutt unveils the gift — a toy gun — and bursts out laughing] 

Dutt: It’s a toy gun, I hope. I will give it to my son (Shahraan) and tell him it’s a wrong thing to hold. [Audience applauds loudly] 

Mir: Aapko gift kaisa lagaa, sir?

Dutt: Bahut hi pyaara… itni badi soch hai aapki (laughs). 

Mir: The gun has been your nemesis for 23 years. This issue has haunted you for 23 years… you’ve survived all that. Would you like to talk about that?

Dutt: Number one, no one knows whether I had the gun or not, to be honest. It was all in the media…they didn’t find any evidence… the cops came to my house, but they didn’t find anything. They suddenly produced a rod and that was about it. They didn’t even know that the gun I supposedly had was automatic or semi-automatic. These guns were made in 1947 in Russia by Kalashnikov. The model was sold in 1957 to the US… they modified it and it went out into the grey market. The automatic was made for the military and the semi-automatic for civilian use. Why did they assume I had an automatic weapon? And what took them 23 years to figure it out? A man is innocent till proven guilty, but there has to be some evidence. If I say that he has a pen (gestures towards Mir), then he has to have something of the pen with him, na? But anyway, yes, it was a very traumatic experience. But I faced it and I served my sentence like a man. I didn’t run away from the law. 

Mir: You didn’t appeal for mercy?

Dutt: I didn’t appeal for mercy. Someone else did, I didn’t. I served the sentence and I came out stronger. It was traumatic till the point I sat myself down and said: ‘Let me stop hoping’. Initially I would keep hoping — hope kuch politically ho jaaye, hope koi naya rule aa jaaye… I hoped and hoped and hoped. At the end of the week, I decided to cut out hope and that actually made me stronger. I know hope is a good thing, but hope where there is hope… don’t hope where there is no hope! (Smiles) 

Mir: You apparently came out of jail with an income of Rs 450. What did you do there?

Dutt: I used to make paper bags. I think 15 paise per bag milte thhe. You can imagine how many bags I must have made to earn Rs 450! So when I got out, the first thing I did was hand over the money to my wife (Maanyata). I told her: ‘This is what I have earned all these years… this is my hard work’. 

 

Mir: Every married man here will identify with that wonderful feeling when they hand over their pay cheques to their wives. How much pride did you have when you handed over that money to Maanyata?

Dutt: Oh, I had so much pride. She was crying… that’s because I earned those 450 bucks the hard way. And this thing you said about pay cheques, how do you know everyone is handing over the correct amount to their wives? (Everyone laughs)

Mir: Aapne toh mujhe bhi pakad liya, sir!

Dutt: Haan, toh phir! (Laughs)

Mir: You have actually lived life king-size. So many of us face hardships in our respective fields every day. A message from you for all of us?

Dutt: Don’t run away from your problems. You look at a problem in the face and you face it. That’s because if you run away, it will run after you, but if you face it, it will shrink away. There is no reason to be tense about your exams or what the world is saying. Be bold, be focused and be a winner. Life bahut kuch sikhaati hai. My life has been complicated… itne utaar-chadhaav aaye hain. But I am happy that I am sitting here today and talking to you all. Always take the positive side of your life and go ahead… I promise you, you will hit sixers all the time.   
        

[With the session drawing to an end, Dutt gets up to go with a goodbye and a namaste... but the audience wants more.

As cries of ‘Ek dialogue, sir’ go up, the smiling Dutt obliges with the crowd favourite: ‘Pachaas tola!’ Cue for Kala Mandir to go berserk… again!] 

Pictures: Pabitra Das and B. Halder 
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