(Jyoti Basu spoke to Indranil Ghosh of The Telegraph in August 2003, discussing his life, family, career and how he thought history might judge him. He also assessed Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee’s performance as his successor, described the challenges before the younger man, and gave his impressions of Sonia Gandhi)

Q. You have not gone on vacation for a long time. England has been your favourite haunt, but you have not visited the country after you relinquished office.

Jyoti Basu: I am 90 years old and my health is failing. I cannot sleep, the (stomach) pain persists and I walk with great effort. So there is no question of my not knowing what is happening to me.

Chandan (Basu’s son) has told me several times to take a vacation but I have told him about what I think lies ahead. If you must know, I keep telling myself aamar ei deshete janmo jeno ei deshetei mori (I was born in this country, let me die in this country). I think they all understand.

Not too many people know how you mentored Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, especially towards the end of your innings as chief minister. If we are right, you had pushed aside a strong suggestion from important leaders at a secretariat meeting that Bhattacharjee be brought in as CM only after you had gone into the campaign as CM and won the 2001 elections for the party. Given this background, how would you like to evaluate Bhattacharjee and comment on many people’s tendency to compare your style with his?

It will be unkind to assume that things are very easy for Buddhadeb. If anything, he is facing far more difficulties compared with what I faced when I became chief minister.

He has the unenviable task of charting a path for Bengal out of one of its gravest financial crises. The government is in dire straits. On Sunday last (July 27, 2003) we had a meeting where we reviewed the state of the economy. We told him (Bhattacharjee) to find out how the measures taken by him six months ago had worked.

I am saying all this to give you an idea about the enormity of his problems. All his efforts to take Bengal forward are not in the public domain. Let me tell you, Buddha has been able to put his signature on governance within a short time, and it is a very creditable achievement.

The Left Front partners do not seem to always subscribe to this notion. A few of them think they are often kept on the margins. And this is one area where the comparison between the two takes place. Your comments?

Absolutely untrue. Buddhadeb always discusses things with us. Unfortunately, the situation is somewhat desultory in the Left Front. There cannot be any comparison between our cases. I found ready acceptance because I have spent 65 years in politics — and add to this the advantage of age, experience and contemporary times.

In Buddhadeb’s case, he is regarded by the front more as “one of us”. Many in the government as well as in the front are older than him; they saw him enter politics and evolve when they were in the leadership.

If you look carefully, Buddha’s problems are quite a few and of a different nature. But he has matured so well that he will overcome this problem before long. And why not, he has the advantage of youth, mobility and a modern mind. Added to this is his commitment to the ideology.

His government, I think, should learn to keep the Left Front with it. Doing it should not be a big problem because of the presence of Biman Bose (front chairman) who plays an effective bridge. Biman wants me to spend more time at front meetings but I am not able to, because of my illness.

Is there any particular area where you think the Bhattacharjee government has done well?

They have initiated serious efforts in areas like infrastructure and information technology. The results of such efforts are already visible, but the real impact would take another couple of years to be fully on view. As I had done earlier, Buddha has begun to go abroad to get investment for Bengal. The Left Front started to woo investment after my government laid down the Industrial Policy in 1993. The Chandigarh party congress accepted the policy after I insisted on a party endorsement.

How would you like to mark his report card?

After watching him perform in the past two-and-a-half years, I can say our choice of Buddhadeb as successor has been right. When I had originally informed the party of my plans to retire, they (the CPM leadership) were a little unsure because they did not have any idea how things would work out.

Our (general) secretary, (Harkishen Singh) Surjeet, had come down to have a meeting with me. I told him our party was strong and united, and Buddha was eminently suitable for the job. Then the party asked me to send out a signal to the people by creating the post of deputy chief minister and appointing Buddhadeb. Now he has proved that there is no alternative to him.

I am very happy, very proud of him. All that he has to learn is to consult them (all sections within the CPM and the front) all the time. Our succession plan worked very well. There is a collective leadership at work, so we have told Buddhadeb to have regular sessions with the core committee and the committee of ministers from the CPM.

Is Citu proving a hurdle for the government?

Look, there is no point blaming Citu all the time for any disruption in trade and industry. There is no doubt that the working class is under severe attack because of the economic reforms and new policies. The public sector and private companies are closing down all around, leaving thousands jobless. We have told Citu it can always go for a movement, but can never use methods like gherao or support the manhandling of management-level people.

We have realised that such methods do not serve any purpose; they are essentially negative methods. Besides, after the recent Supreme Court judgment on the Tamil Nadu case, I am sure the trade union movement will have to have a second look at some of the old measures.

We are also telling the private sector that Citu and other trade unions have considerably curbed their activities; now it is time for them (the private sector) to show their commitment to labour. Many companies will not score any marks if tested on commitment to labour welfare.

Since you are known for making accurate political predictions, especially relating to elections, please tell us if there can be a non-Left government in Bengal in the next 50 years.

I shall be honest. I myself could not imagine that we would last in office for 26 years. How and why it happened would be a matter for research for future political historians and sociologists.

But let me tell you, no matter what our critics say, no government can last in office for a day, let alone so many years, if it does not enjoy popular support. Yet some of you people and many in the Opposition chose to be blinkered and, showing a lack of understanding, attributed it to all kinds of non-reasons.

We shall continue to run the government as long as this support continues and the Trinamul Congress and other Opposition parties remain fragmented. I believe things have worsened in Trinamul lately. Well, I can’t complain: the more it fragments, the better our position.

How do you find the main players in the (2004 parliamentary) elections?

One may or may not like it, but the election is going to witness a battle of two personalities — (Atal Bihari) Vajpayee and Sonia Gandhi. Many people have this peculiar reservation about the Congress projecting Sonia Gandhi as leader or PM candidate. Such reservation has no relevance because in parliamentary democracy, you cannot escape projecting a leader before the voter. If the question is whether they should project a person of foreign origin, I think it is best to leave the matter to the voter.

However, it seems to me, no matter how much Hindi she has learnt, her foreign origin is going to be a disadvantage for Sonia. When Sharad Pawar came to see me sometime ago, I asked him why he had kicked up a row on Sonia’s foreign origin. Frankly, I felt that if Sharad were a natural leader for the Congress, he would have been chosen by the party for the job.

Sharad, I believe, has come round to the idea of Sonia Gandhi as supreme leader of the Congress. But you never know what will be on his mind on this issue tomorrow. Incidentally, Sonia’s Hindi has improved considerably. When I met her last, I asked her, “Tell me, how much Hindi have you learnt?” She said she had learnt a great deal.

Her Hindi apart, how do you find Sonia Gandhi?

Look, there are two ways you can choose to evaluate Sonia Gandhi. One, her foreign origin, which, no matter how hard she tries, she cannot replace with something that fits the script.

But the other, and to my mind the more practical, way would be take note of the important role she played in those eventful days (in the ’90s) to prevent the Congress from breaking up.

It is an entirely different issue that a political party that is 115 years old cannot throw up an Indian-born leader. But such an issue will also have to be examined in the context of her contribution to checking the disintegration of the Congress. If you want me to put it bluntly, Sonia alone saved the Congress. However, she has to learn a lot, especially about the way she is often misled by her own advisers.

Take the example of Tripura where the Congress teamed up with a terrorist group to fight us. Manik Sarkar (Tripura chief minister) had given me a letter for Sonia, in which he described how the Congress leadership, under wrong advice, had tied up with terrorists. I handed over the letter to her when I met her at a function.

“Read it at home. It is important,” I told her. “I will, and do something about it,” she said and did nothing. She had chosen to go by the advice of Mani Shankar Aiyar who has not the slightest idea of Tripura. Later I told her, “You are being misled.”

Now that you are out of office, you must be spending ‘quality time’ with your family?

Where is the family, I ask you? My wife is very sick and is away at Chandan’s place undergoing treatment. Chandan lives close by, but then he has his own family, his own life. I cannot expect anyone to narrow his space for me. I am on my own, meeting people, reading interesting books, working for the party. I would like to continue this way till my last breath.

None in your family, not even your son, joined politics....

No, it was his personal choice that took him to the world of business. Since sons do not necessarily follow in the footsteps of their fathers, neither Chandan nor I can be faulted on his not joining the CPM or any other political party. Why, I myself did not accept my father’s many suggestions to become a doctor or a bureaucrat or a barrister.

You are perhaps touring the districts more than you did when you were CM?

When I go and visit the districts, I feel joyous as well as sad watching the big crowds of young men and women. Joyous because so many young people are by our side. I tell my people that we would be committing a crime if we ignore them. I tell my comrades, don’t rule over them, try to take them with you.

I am sad because certain comrades abandon our philosophy and values and join hands with the BJP or Trinamul for narrow interests. Such comrades are a blot on the party, we are trying to rid the party of them.

If you were to live your life all over again, what would you do?

If I had to live my life again, I would most certainly be in politics and in the CPM. When I joined politics against the express wishes of my father and the rest of the family, I, like the rest of my comrades, had no idea what the future held in store.

I cannot make you understand those times. It was a very different India, which demanded sacrifice from political workers and leaders. Looking back, I have no regrets. I was chosen by my party and by my people to play a role which I tried to play to the best of my ability.

Do you think you have been able to make a contribution to Indian politics in the course of your 65 years in politics?

I was and am a part of the collective leadership of the CPM. The CPM made a very important contribution, namely, the model of coalition politics. What began in Bengal owing to certain circumstances is being replicated across the country — of course, driven by circumstances.

You have been the only politician from post-Independence eastern India who could have been a big player in national politics. Before you, only Chittaranjan Das and Subhas Chandra Bose had earned the label of national leaders but could not retain it because of various factors.

Such comparison, I am afraid, is not correct. Their role in the freedom movement and in all-India politics was of the highest order. How can my role be compared to theirs?

And it would be wrong to conclude that I played the role in an individual capacity. What I was and what I am is because of the party. The CPM leadership had assigned a role to me which I carried out with help from innumerable comrades. It will be improper if I do not recollect the contributions and sacrifices of many comrades. To offer a perspective on the CPM, let me say that none of us can be viewed outside the context of the party and its programme.

How would you like history to judge you? Are you scared of being judged harshly?

I have reached an age where I have no reason to be concerned about how history is going to judge me. I am sure some people would judge me favourably, some would judge me harshly. I shall not be bothered too much because there comes a point in every man’s life when you know you have done your bit and it’s time you stepped aside and let the new order begin.

Besides, history’s judgement, flattering or critical, would not come in a hurry. Let new people, new times, new events run their full course.

I do not know how history will judge me and my comrades, but I shall expect history to record how we came in from the fringe where we had only two MLAs and grew into one of India’s strongest parties, with the ability to influence policies and to manage one of the country’s politically conscious and problem-ridden states for 27 years.

History should also record that we brought back stability, created prosperity and beat back the forces that threatened Bengal’s society.