How do you feel after receiving this year’s Goldman Environmental Prize (also known as Green Nobel prize), the biggest recognition for grassroots-level environmentalism?

It’s an international recognition of my struggle to protect the interest of hundreds of tribals, particularly of the Dongaria Kandhs of Niyamgiri where Vedanta Resources wants to set up its project. It’s a struggle against global capitalism. The money amounting to Rs 1.19 crore that I have got will be utilised to strengthen the voice of the people against exploitation. Chief minister Naveen Patnaik and Union minister Dharmendra Pradhan congratulated me on Twitter. I have responded with a “Thank U” on the online platform. But I don’t know whether they got the message or not.

A section of people say that the movement against bauxite mining in Niyamgiri is detrimental to the interest of the tribals as the latter will remain underdeveloped and not be able to go to school or to hospital. What’s your take? 

This theory is against the people. What has the state done so far?  Do you think that the area will be developed by mining? Don’t they have the right to education, right to have good health? 

There was a referendum in which the local people unanimously rejected mining. Do you think that everywhere there is industry, there is development? But you should also know that in many places where mining takes place, there is abject poverty. 

Please see the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) report of 2010 on poor people in rich state. Of the 42 poverty-stricken districts, 32 are from mining areas. Only a few people have become richer.  

But industrialisation is a must for development. The state because of limited resources at its disposal has let private sector into the mining field?  

Some people and some outsiders are floating such theories. What is our experience in our state? Where there is industrialisation, there is displacement. Health hazards have also come in with mining. 

Do you mean to say that mining should be done only in areas where the human beings don’t stay? 

Mineral rich areas are generally forest clad and inhabited by tribal people. There should be a policy on how and to what extent mining should be done. When you have a Forest Rights Act and the 57th Schedule of the Constitution and the PESA act, why don’t you follow the law?

You had launched a campaign against the Niyamgiri project and even senior congress leader Bhakta Charan Das had launched the Green Kalahandi movement? How was it different from yours?  

Earlier, Bhakta Das was in favour of Vedanta’s Lanjigarh project. But his hardcore supporters backed our movement saying “Pahle mati, tab party” (first land, then party). When the voice against Vedanta’s project gained momentum, Das realised that he was on the wrong side and changed his stand.

The debate over exploitation of natural resources and development is perennial. But there has to be development. Has the government ever invited you to have a discussion on any particular project?  

No. It has never invited me. On the Posco issue, once they had invited Abhay Sahu. The agitators wanted the chief minister to come and talk to them, but it never happened. Now that Posco has left, good sense should prevail on the government. It should withdraw all state-sponsored criminal cases against the local people.   .

The land where the Posco project was to be set up has only seven tribals. The land acquired was mostly wasteland encroached upon by people. What was the rationale of the protest by the local people?  

They were fighting to protect their livelihood. It was a vibrant agricultural economy based on betel vines. The land is ours. People have cultivated the land over generations. They are forest dwellers. Even the Meena Gupta committee recommended that Forest Rights Act should be implemented in the area. You cannot say that this land is encroached land and should be handed over to private companies.

You talked of displacement. But wherever there is industry, there is displacement. Industries have to exist but a good rehabilitation package should be introduced and it should be acceptable to the people. 

Two things should be kept in mind. Focus should be on sustainable livelihood. We should think about it before setting up industries. 

Once people are displaced, they get lost. They have no one to fall back on. After the industrialisation took place, they are no more part of the development. That’s why the people of Kalinga Nagar had launched a protest even though the land acquisition was done much before. 

You opposed Tata’s Kalinga Nagar project, then Posco and then the Niyamgiri project. If you oppose everything, how will development take place and people get jobs?  

Mining-based industries will not solve employment problem. Most of these industries and plants are highly automated and create few jobs. 

For large-scale employment we need agro-based industries. Small-scale industries, such as jute mills and sugar factories, should be created. 

Mining-based industries are capital intensive and help only add to the coffers of the rich. We have Nalco, Rourekala Steel Plant, but we have failed to set up intermediary industries. You cannot go for industrialisation on the bodies of 
tribals.

Lack of unemployment among tribals has only helped the cause of the Maoists. What is your take on the issue?

Maoism is a political issue. Various committees set up in the past have come to the conclusion that Maoist problem exists due to land-related strife. We don’t believe in Maoist ideology. We have faith in our Constitution. But we should initiate talks with the Maoists. 

Chief minister has already invited them for talks with a request that they should give up arms first. 

What is the harm in talk even if they don’t give up arms? Even if you don’t talk, they are indulging in all sorts of violence. What is the harm in talking? You are talking to the Naga rebels and others. Why can’t you talk to Maoists? A democratic government should be large-hearted.

What would you have been had you not been a social activist? 

I had thought I would become a doctor or an engineer. But I became an advocate and social activist. 

Picture by Ashwinee Pati