 |
| Lillete and Ira posed for the t2 lens at GD Birla Sabhagar during their trip to Calcutta to stage August: Osage County. Picture by Rashbehari Das |
Ira, your mom says you are like a mirror...
Lillete: When I am performing, (turns to Ira) you are a very good testing stone for me because you have done drama, you have been paalo-ed (brought up) in theatre.... She has been running around the theatre since she could crawl. She has a discerning eye.
Ira: I think it’s especially difficult because mom is directing and very often she acts in her plays. It’s very difficult to get an outside perspective on what her performance is looking like in the context of the play, how it is turning out…. Then it helps that I can sit and watch and tell her what is maybe working, not working…
How much of an influence was your mother when you were growing up?
Ira: Huge influence ya... I used to be her chamchi! I used to be her little poonchh (tail). I used to follow her everywhere.
Lillete: You can see that now I have become her poonchh, wearing the same shirt! She bought this shirt and I said, ‘It’s a very nice shirt’. She was like ‘Don’t you buy the same shirt!’ I told her that I would buy something close to it! So, the chamchagiri has become a little diffused and osmotic now. (Laughs.)
Ira: I am very inspired by her all the time. I have been working with her for the last seven years in the capacity of an actor and an assistant director also to some extent. I keep learning from mom.
The world’s a stage
Would you have been in theatre had it not been for your mother?
Ira: Probably not, because it is the world that I have grown up in. And it is not just mom, it is also my dad (Ravi Dubey), my aunt (Lushin Dubey)… my mom’s sister had a theatre company in Delhi called Kids World. The whole Dubey paltan was acting with Kids World from the time we could walk. We would be doing everything… hang around backstage, sell brochures, usher people to the seats… just be there.
Lillete: I was told that I was using child labour! They were very young and they used to feel very important collecting 10-10 bucks, counting and giving the brochures.... At work, she has one very good quality. She listens to everybody. She is very calm. I am a little more impatient and demanding. Her manner of working is not like mine. Like the way she conducted a huge festival — Short+Sweet in Mumbai. It is an Australian brand — 10-minute short plays which can be by absolutely anybody.
Ira: It has been happening in Sydney for 10 years. They did it in Delhi, I happened to see it and thought it would be nice if we could have it in Bombay. It encourages a lot of fresh talent and in the process garners a fresh audience as well.
I, for one, have found it very difficult over the years to convince my friends to come and watch my plays. They would much rather go and watch a film. Some of them are like, ‘We love you and support you’ but they still don’t watch my plays! Theatre culture is an acquired taste. If you don’t enjoy watching theatre and have not been exposed to it, you are not going to come and start watching plays.
Lillete: My own brother… he must have seen two or three plays of mine and he says it very openly. When he does come, he enjoys it very much…. But I also don’t come from a theatre family. My mother was a gynaecologist and my father was an engineer and a physicist. My father wanted me to be a nuclear physicist and my mother wanted me to be a groundbreaking gynaecologist!
I have been doing theatre for more than 35 years now. My friends who occasionally saw me on stage but knew that I did theatre, after I did Zubeidaa, said: ‘You know you are really a very nice actress!’ I was like, ‘When I was killing myself doing Shakespeare, Greek tragedy and Lady Macbeth, you never thought about it! (Laughs.) People are very funny. Theatre is not the largest common denominator. You cannot compare films and theatre. It is like apples and pears. Theatre hasn’t acquired that status yet… in Bengal, you respect that, it is a long tradition of theatre.
Ira: That’s what is ironical at some level. Why Short+Sweet is important is that young people are watching it and it is this capsule that works. Today’s is an SMS generation, so it’s perfect for someone who is not acclimatised to theatre.
Lillete: They call it the T20 of theatre!
Ira: It is ironical that regional theatre is thriving. When I went abroad and studied it…
Lillete: Ira went to Yale...
Ira: ....The kind of support they (English theatre) get, we are nowhere near that.
 |
| LILLETE AND IRA DUBEY Picture by Rashbehari Das |
Lillete: Abroad if you say that you are a theatre actor and that you have a company you acquire a certain respect, immediately! Of course film is film… it’s got the whole glamour… but if they know you have done Monsoon (Wedding), that has a stature….
One of the reasons why I think Maharashtra is so alive is that the state supports theatre. Whether it is by giving minor subsidies or organising festivals or cash awards, they are encouraging it at the state level. Why is theatre surviving abroad? I remember we had gone for the Edinburgh International Festival and this guy who had come from a small theatre company up north in England complained bitterly that they only got 500,000 pounds a year to support themselves. I was like, ‘We don’t even get five pounds!’
The fact that we have a company (Primetime Theatre) and that we celebrated 20 years… Osage County is our 25th production… is a miracle. And I run it like a company. It has to make money. It is not here for love and fresh air! And money is not a bad word. This is another problem with a lot of theatre people. They have these strange hang-ups… that they all must look like artists. (Ira smiles.) If you don’t respect yourself and think you are worth something, then why should somebody else?
The problem in theatre, especially in Bombay, is that while there is a lot of professionalism, anyone who is halfway decent is busy doing too many things. If you are a brilliant actor, you are unavailable to theatre unless you do it yourself like Naseerbhai (Naseeruddin Shah). Otherwise if you are very good, you may have a little time. If you are very, very okay, then you are free to do theatre.
People from Hollywood will test and challenge themselves by doing a play. A Nicole Kidman, a (Robert) De Niro, a (Al) Pacino will occasionally do a play. They know that’s where the real stuff is and they get a khujli (itch) every once in a while. A Paresh (Rawal)…. Anyone who has been there will know that film is fun… occasionally you would do a Bow Barracks (Forever!), Monsoon (Wedding)… you get a nice fun role like Kal Ho Naa Ho, Baghban… but it is not meat. It is not something you can sink your teeth into. That happens only in theatre.
Never say never
Ira: In cinema, I am a novice. I have a lot to explore and learn. I have only done three feature films [The President Is Coming, Aisha and Turning 30!!!]. I found it very exciting. They are two totally different mediums. In cinema, an actor is a cog in a very large machinery. I did a show called Chicks on Flicks…
Lillete: On Sony (PIX)…
Ira: We were critiquing current Hollywood films. We were doing everything on our own. It was a great learning experience.... We have been movie buffs in the house…
Lillete: When Ira and Neha (Lillete’s elder daughter) saw films, they tended to see either classics or cartoons.
Ira: But we still saw Shashi Kapoor and Amitabh Bachchan films. I was an Amitabh Bachchan fan and she (Lillete) was a Shashi Kapoor fan.... But being able to review films gave me a totally different understanding. When I did my first feature film (The President Is Coming), I had an understanding of the various aspects of film-making and that, at the end of the day, it is the director’s vision and an actor is just a part of it.
Lillete: Yeah… a puppet…
Ira: ...Just a part, which is great. In films, a lot of work happens before you are on camera. There you can be shooting point A and shooting point X and coming back to M. You have to know that whole graph in your head…
Lillete: Of course, almost nobody does anything like that! (Laughs.)
Ira: But the whole gamut and space of Indian cinema has changed. Today there is space for an actor like me. I am not aiming to be a Kareena (Kapoor) or Katrina (Kaif). I am a working actor. I am not saying ‘no’ to dancing around trees either. If tomorrow there is a Jab We Met kind of a part, why not?
Lillete: As an actor, you should be able to open yourself up and enjoy everything. I came from an ivory towerish background. And when I was younger than Ira, I was asked to do a commercial film…. I had turned my nose up! I was doing my masters and my dad would have never agreed. Life is ironical. As she (Ira) said, never say never. Full circle. I come to Bombay because my husband is posted there... (I am) past 40… my kids are all teenagers... Mr (Shyam) Benegal asks me to do Zubeidaa. And then I did Gadar… you cannot go more commercial than that (laughs)!
I am doing another Sunny Deol film. My husband said you are just an actor… and Ira, you don’t have to take on the responsibility of that vision or that sensibility. Of course you don’t want to be doing something that is totally revolting…
Ira: For me, the people I am working with is also important, even if it is dancing around trees and wearing a weird outfit, which I did in Aisha. Pinky was an out-there character, and these guys kept saying you are a clotheshorse, you are tiny, you can carry anything…. All that is fine but it was my first Hindi commercial film and I was looking like a freak! It was a crazy character...
Lillete: She was Bengali (laughs out loud)....
Ira: .... Pinky Bose.... Like mom said, stage is an actor’s medium. Once you are on stage…
Lillete: You command it. These (film) script parts are very funny. Whenever they come for narration, I always tell them that you are making my part sound bigger than Shah Rukh’s (Khan)! At the end, you will have some six-seven scenes if you are lucky. But when they come to give the narration, they eliminate everyone else!
Ira: Being from the theatre background, you know it is not about how many scenes the actor has. Look at Viola Davis in Doubt. She had one scene and she was nominated for an Oscar.
Ira: It is a very Bollywood mentality.
Lillete: Aapka role bahut important hai… (laughs) yeah… like hum nikal jayenga toh sara edifice hi crumble ho jayega… (Laughs.)
The right man! Is there any such animal?!
Lillete, does Ira discuss boys with you?
Ira: Yeah, of course! If there are any at the moment, I would be happily discussing them.
Lillete: It is the lack of them…
Ira: Yeah, and I discuss that as well… (Laughs.)
Does Ira always go for the right man?
Lillete: Is there any such animal?! Well, Ira and Neha, after they turned 15, were more like my friends. I might put on the mummy hat once in a while when it needs to be put on, because I think that is also a very important function… you are not here just to be a friend… you are a guide and a support. I am a great believer in learning through experience. But you also don’t want to allow something that will have too fatal a repercussion. You have to step in.
Having said that, my husband and I have been very free about boys. We have brought up our children not to get married at 20. We have brought them up as individuals. So, if you have brought up a girl like that, she is going to live like that… they are very balanced, grounded and intelligent and they will not do anything stupid.
But as far as guys are concerned, I have always liked them. They might not have been permanent, but what you have to realise is that the whole thing is a part of the experience. Life is not about that one perfect person that you are going to meet, if you are lucky enough to find the perfect person… there is no such animal! What is important is to enjoy each of those relationships and experiences. They made you grow and learn.
Ira: I think that is a very important point. That is something both my sister and I learnt from mom. You have to enjoy life… squeeze the juice out of every single moment... whatever relationships have happened... or are not happening at all at the moment!
Lillete: Ira is single and very ready to mingle, obviously!
Ira: No, the mingling is happening…. See I am saying it very jocularly but I am not worried. I am not dying to be in a relationship... not dying to have a boyfriend, get married. I am very happy with what I am. I meet very interesting people. I have lots of friends. I know one day marriage will happen… I can see myself with a family, but there’s no rush! There is a lot happening in my career. The film space has just about started.
Lillete: The journey is now. So many of us live our lives…
Ira: In a rat race.
Lillete: Not just in a rat race but also like… my life will begin when I get that house, that car, that guy, that… hello! life is happening now as we are speaking. Enjoy this moment! Be in it... I love that line from Dance Like A Man… ‘you can wait for it (life) to start till you are 60 and then it won’t start’. When it happens, it may not be what you want at that moment, you might have morphed and become someone else.
Ira: Sadly, it also bogs you down. You are living in the hope of something that might fall short of your expectations... I see that with a lot of young people, especially. Your expectations are very often so high that you are setting yourself up for disappointment, which is not worth it.
Face as your fortune
Ira, does your mom give you tips on looking the way she does?
Ira: Mom has never been to a gym in her life. She eats whatever she wants. I keep telling myself that I have great genes and that I will look like her when I am her age… of course, my lifestyle is far harder than hers was… I party a lot.
Lillete: I also partied a lot. Not as late as you… but I did.
Ira: (Laughs out loud.) I used to have a deadline…
Lillete: Late is late, baby!
Ira: Very recently it has become a little lax but mom used to sit up. My technical deadline was 3am!
Lillete: That’s very late, don’t you think?
Ira: Well… okay, that was the deadline. It is only a little lax now because she said, ‘Okay, I trust you, chalo… you are coming home at night and sleeping in your bed’.
Lillete: My only thing is safety. For me the channel of communication has to be clear, unclogged. People are growing up, they are becoming adults, you have to let go.
Ira: She is extremely positive.
Lillete: I work like a dog. I am high on nervous energy.... As you get older — for me 40 was the most liberating, by 50 toh I was flying — you don’t give a damn any more. When you are young, you are worried as to what people would think about your looks, how someone else is looking… you are so stressed all the time… not that I was. My mother is stunningly beautiful — I am not a patch on her — and she has never put make-up on her face. Beauty was taken for granted, it was no big deal… Oh, you are good-looking! Okay fine, get on with your life…
Ira: Now that we are in this business, you suddenly notice how important it is…
Lillete: This obsession…
Ira: Yes, in this business, your face is your biggest selling point...
Lillete: Fortune!
Ira: As long as you are not looking haggard... sleeping properly... you have to take care of yourself at some level.
Lillete: One of my little secrets is that — sleeping. I need my eight hours of sleep. I do go without it very often but I make up. I am like a little camel. I’ll sleep for half an hour here and then one hour there...
Ira: That’s an important tip that I have picked up from her! Both of us are lucky that way, we can take a catnap anywhere…
Lillete: Which also shows a peaceful mind. I don’t think that I have taken a sleeping tablet in my life. I can just hit that pillow and I am out.... There is a beauty and grace in ageing naturally. The only thing that I do is dye my hair because if I don’t do that, I will not get any work, unless I am doing (roles of) grandmothers and greatgrandmothers… I am not quite willing to do that… let me have some grandchildren of my own…. Otherwise, grey hair looks beautiful. There is a lovely elegance to that ageing.
Ira: Like a Nafisa (Ali)…
Saionee Chakraborty
Do you think Lillete and Ira are the coolest mother-daughter pair? Tellt2@abp.in
