Harsh Neotia: His name, Swraj, came about because his parents were inspired by the freedom movement of Mahatma Gandhi. He was born in Jalandhar and today he’s the Baron of Marylebone in the City of Westminster... he’s a billionaire, a philanthropist, an educationist, a Labour politician and above all, a great well-wisher of India. He is amongst the top 100 richest people in Britain but prefers to take public transport when in London!

Sir, I want to start with the early days. You were working in India and went to the UK because of a personal tragedy and then decided to stay on...

Lord Paul: Harsh, it is nice to see you. As you know, I have been a great admirer of your father, Vinod. Calcutta is a city I love and I feel at home in. I spent most of my working life in India, in Calcutta. There is an emotional attachment to it. That is why I am here. Otherwise, after I lost my brother Jit Paul four years ago, I never thought I would come back to Calcutta. Jit was a great brother, he brought me up.

Four of my children were born here, I was married here, I met my wife here, she studied and taught at Loreto House, three of my children studied there. Loreto House is the reason I am in Calcutta now. Last year the principal came to see me in Delhi about building a new wing for the college. I am a great supporter of education, especially women’s education. I said it’s for girls’ education, please go ahead, I’ll send you whatever money you need. They are laying the foundation stone for the wing [called Mary Ward — Lady Aruna Paul Wing] this afternoon.

We lost our younger daughter Ambika and it is for her treatment that we had gone to Britain [in 1966]. After her death I decided to continue to live there and since then God has been kind. Harsh, I don’t know where you got the idea that I was a billionaire... I wish I was! I am a very ordinary man, to whom God has been very kind. I have more than what I need, I have a lovely wife of 56 years — when I married her she was the most beautiful girl in Calcutta... she still is — I have four lovely children and eight grandchildren. That is what my wealth is.

I use public transport in London because it’s cheaper. As a matter of fact, when you are over 60 in Britain, you get it free!

Lord Swraj Paul, 82, and Harsh Neotia at Tete-a-Tete at Taj Bengal on Wednesday morning. Pictures: Rashbehari Das

Harsh: I think you were one of the first people who got involved with the London Zoo and that was because you spent some lovely moments with your daughter there before she succumbed to her illness…

Lord Paul: My daughter was suffering from leukaemia and in leukaemia, during a remission you are fine, then you get an attack and you are back in hospital. During the time of remission, we used to take her to London Zoo and the time we spent there were some of the best moments of our lives.

After she died, I had no money. I almost took sanyas. That’s the reason really that I stayed back. Our other three children had already started school in London, so I didn’t want to disturb that. After a year of sanyas, I thought I better get involved in something. I started a factory, God was kind and we built a nice business. But I always thought that one day or the other, I hope I am able to build a memorial for my daughter.

So, we started putting a part of our profits into the Ambika Paul Foundation. Fortunately we were able to do that, given that I started in London by borrowing £5,000! God is very, very important to me.

In 1990, as luck would have it, the late Mrs Thatcher stopped all kinds of funds for extracurricular activities and the zoo had no option but to close. I felt very sad. I wrote to them saying I don’t know the extent of your problems at the zoo but I can help if you let me. They took a year to come back and said our problems are much bigger but at the moment, we would like to set up a children’s zoo and we need someone to maintain it. I said fine and they decided to name it after my daughter… it’s called the Ambika Paul Children’s Zoo.

But I wondered why on earth the zoo was losing money! I looked at their operations and I thought better marketing and better control of expenditure would do it. That has been the story of my life when I was doing business — investing, cutting costs, making operations more efficient — that is how I built my business in Britain. Everything is ultimately about efficiency. At the zoo, now we make about £1.5 million a year, which we reinvest in the zoo.

Harsh: Moving on to a broader area, you have been great friends with Mrs Indira Gandhi and Mrs Thatcher. Would you like to share some of your memories?

Lord Paul: I think Indira Gandhi has been not only the greatest leader in India but one of the greatest in the world. BBC voted her the Prime Minister of the millennium in 2000... in spite of the fact that she declared Emergency in 1975 and was much criticised by the BBC then. She wanted India to be strong, she did not want India to play second fiddle to anybody.

Recently during an interview, I was asked who was the greatest Indian Prime Minister and I replied, ‘In all honesty, they are Indira Gandhi and Atal Bihari Vajpayee.’ Leaving Panditji [Jawaharlal Nehru] aside, of course. Panditji ruled with the affection and love of the people. These two ruled after being elected by the people. There’s a vast difference.

I am a very, very big admirer of women. I think they make great leaders, they have great personalities. Two years ago I gave a degree to a 95-year-old, who came to a university where I am chancellor — University of Wolverhampton. I hugged her on stage.

It was also a great privilege and luck to be able to issue honorary degrees to Prime Ministers, cabinet ministers, then Mr Pranab Mukherjee and Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, Mr Arun Jaitley… I am non-political in India. As a matter of fact, I am non-political even in Britain, Harsh.

Let me tell you, the Indian political system is as good as anywhere. The quality of debates is very good. The Opposition’s job is to oppose, because Parliament is supposed to take the government to account. That is what democracy is… and India’s democracy is great. That is why we haven’t had the need for a revolution. Anna Hazare made a wonderful movement and the kind of love and affection the people gave him was fantastic, unheard of. But because we have the Parliament and you have the right to select your representative every five years, the chance of a revolution is not there… and thank god for that!

So, make use of your MPs, take them to task when they come to your city. They are answerable to the individuals. Even as members of the House of Lords, we are answerable to the people.

[British PM] David Cameron and the Conservative government have decided on restrictions for student visas. In my view and in the view of lots of others, this will do more damage to Britain than to students from abroad. If students overstay or refuse to go back, the law must deal with it. When I go back, we will force this issue. So, keep your chin up. Come to Britain, it’s a great place for education, it’s a great place for Indians.

Harsh: Last question from me. If I remember correctly, you were the first or second Indian to be invited to the House of Lords. What was that moment like?

Lord Paul: I had been a member of the Labour Party for a very long time. I believe the Labour Party was responsible for the freedom of India and it was my gratitude to that party as an Indian. When I was invited to be a member of the House of Lords, funnily enough, it was a Conservative Prime Minister who asked me. Yes, it was a great privilege. You think your wife is a lady but now she becomes one by title, your children are called “honourable”, you hope they will grow to be honourable!

I was the second one to be invited to the House of Lords and the first person of Indian origin to be a member of the Privy Council... it’s the highest honour, because you are in the Queen’s Cabinet. But I can tell you one thing… the Queen holds the meetings all standing, including her!

Pranab Dasgupta, gynaecologist

What about your interest in sports?

LP: I was appointed by the government to be on the board for the 2012 London Olympics. I was asked to chair the Olympics Delivery Committee, the one responsible for the acquisition of land. Then I am also in the British Olympic Association advisory board which prepares the athletes to compete and it has been such a pleasure to congratulate the people who have done extremely well, there was some Indian representation... but I would like to see more Indians out there.... I love sports. My wife criticises me for watching football all the time which is my most favourite sport. I also like cricket.

Kunal Basu, author

You mentioned that you are no longer political, but you are still an astute judge of character. So who do you think would be the best prime minister in India following the 2014 elections?

LP: Whoever the people elect…. What choice do I have?

Kunal: People make mistakes… LP: Let me put it this way, whether it’s a CEO job in a company or a CEO job of a country, people only show their mettle once they have the job. Some fail, some deliver. Who could have given the credit to Mrs Gandhi? Nobody gave credit to Margaret Thatcher. When she came in, nobody thought she would sustain…. I will always remember — especially the girls would like to hear it — one day when Mrs Thatcher came to the House of Lords and one question came to her. ‘There are such great academicians who are women, there are judges who are women, there are ministers who are women and now you are the Prime Minister, why is God addressed as He?’

Pat came her answer: ‘I’ll ask Her.’

Saira Shah Halim, image consultant

You’ve come to Calcutta after a very long time, how much of Calcutta is looking like London?

LP: Can I dodge the question? (Laughs) I was asked the same question earlier, whether it is possible to make Calcutta like London. My answer was, why not better? I came only yesterday, and I was here four years ago, the streets look much cleaner…. I think we are getting impatient. So, I wish all the best and you have to give it time. It is not easy to deliver in a democratic system.

Agnimitra Paul, fashion designer

In the world political scenario, do you think women have fared better than men? And second, how do you retain your simplicity and Indianness? I am amazed to see you don’t even have an accent!

LP: There have been some outstanding women political leaders. At the moment, the world’s best leader, according to me, is Angela Merkel. I think women tend to concentrate more on their work. Half of the time they have to fight against the prejudice that people think they can’t….

I am a very proud Indian and I am glad that I am Indian. I went to school in the United States, I have been living in Britain for the last 40 years, I don’t need the accent to prove myself. I think this accent is a make-up issue. You use lipstick, people use accent.

Gargi Roy Chowdhury, actress

What is your advice for young India?

LP: Quite a few years ago when I was in my old school, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, I was talking to the students and the same question was asked. And I’ll tell you the answer I gave. Never ask an old man for advice because his frustrations come in. Make your own mistakes, you will learn from them.

Team t2

t2: Your engineering unit was supposed to supply some parts to the Tata Nano factory in Singur. Were you disappointed when Nano pulled out? Will you invest in Bengal again?

LP: One of the saddest things is that I have not been able to do much in Bengal. It is a great state and Calcutta is a lovely city. Bengal needs to grow, Bengal should grow. It was the industrial hub of the India that I was born and brought up in. I was disappointed that I could not… but there was no way I could do the plant since it was dedicated to the Tatas, so we had to shift the plant to Sanand.

t2: Narendra Modi has emerged as the biggest champion of business. Being a businessman, what are your thoughts on the Gujarat CM and his pitch for the prime minister’s job?

LP: My view is very simple. Keep politics out of business. Business and politics do not mix. Unfortunately, both businessmen and politicians here like to mix the two. You should have your friendships, they should have their views. But if I had a view as a politician, I would give it as a politician. If I have a view as a businessman I will give it as a businessman. I don’t want to mix it. By mixing it, you are originating corruption and that is India’s biggest problem.

t2: What is your reading of Mamata Banerjee’s two-year rule in Bengal?

LP: I think I am too far away to say that but, first of all, I always respect whoever has been elected by the people. In democracy you have to respect the people and they have elected the leader. I have no doubt that she will achieve a lot and I wish her all the luck, but I think people are getting a little too impatient for no reason.

“It was quite different and I really liked the way Harsh moderated the session. He covered various aspects. It’s a privilege for Prabha Khaitan Foundation to host the two of them in conversation,” said Sundeep Bhutoria

“As a dermatologist, my first observation was, what does he do for his skin?! He doesn’t have any wrinkles and it’s so good. What I really appreciate is the clarity of his thoughts. He has a complete understanding of the geopolitical situation. He is a businessman and he’s so optimistic. He believes in democracy, and when he said have patience and give the one in power a chance, it gives a lot of hope for Bengal. Also, Harsh Neotia steered the conversation very well,”

Sachin Varma, t2 columnist

What would you like to ask Lord Swraj Paul? Tell t2@abp.in