Aparna Sen in conversation with Rita Bhimani at The Conclave on Monday evening. Pictures by Rashbehari Das

It rained, then it poured and then settled into a steady drizzle on Monday but come evening, The Other Room at The Conclave was packed to capacity. The occasion: Aparna Sen in conversation with PR consultant Rita Bhimani as part of the club’s 25th anniversary celebrations. Looking comfortable and chic in a flowing skirt paired with a black kurta and brick-red uttariya, the actor-cum-filmmaker-cum-activist spoke about cinema, college, colleagues and more. Only t2 was there.

On being writer and filmmaker Chidananda Dasgupta’s daughter

When I was in school, the two reigning matinee idols were Suchitra Sen and Uttam Kumar, but I wasn’t allowed to watch Bengali films. We were allowed Charlie Chaplin, the Marx Brothers and lots of films that we didn’t understand. I felt very cheated and deprived. When my friends would discuss Bengali films, I would feel terrible! I told my parents that I wanted to see Bangla films, but they said, ‘Wait, Manik (Satyajit Ray)’s film is coming out very soon.’ And what was that film? Pather Panchali!

On filmmakers who have influenced her

I’ll really not be able to tell you that…. But influence is sometimes that remains unseen… I’ve always loved (Ingmar) Bergman, but I don’t think there’s anything Bergman-esque in my films. If I was influenced at all, it was by Ray... and Rabindranath, of course. As a filmmaker, you are not only influenced by other filmmakers. You’re also influenced by other artistes… and by life itself.

As I am fond of saying, if you are a Bengali, you inherit the tradition of Rabindranath and Ray. It’s like inheriting your parents’ blood sugar or blood pressure. There’s nothing you can do about it (laughs)!

On becoming an actress at 13

Oh, I was absolutely ready. I was all of 10 when I acted in my first play, in school. I played a little boy — Ami of Hajabarala by Sukumar Ray. Now, today’s Aparna would say why should Ami have to be a boy, why not a girl?

Anyway, back then, a red sari was put on as a dhoti for me and I went on stage. That was the most enjoyable experience of my life. It was like a dream and I thought this is it. This is what I want to be.

My parents were very, very sweet and young and as full of dreams as I was. I told them I want to be an actor and they said, ‘Of course, you must!’

You know, this sounds like a concocted story, but it’s not. It was summer holidays. I was reading Golpo Guchha and imagining myself as Mrinmoyee of Samapti, when the phone rang. It was Ray asking my father for me to act in the Samapti portion of Teen Kanya!

On her college days

Sen with singer-actress Usha Uthup, who ribbed her filmmaker friend for not casting her in any of her films

We had a blast (at Presidency College). I mean I really had gone to college not so much for the education — all the readings that I have done are not really because of college but because of my own interest — but for the whole experience of going to college. Our gang is still very close — Rakhi Sarkar, Amit Mitra, Saugata Roy, Gouri Chatterjee; all these people are still very close.

People say they find Presidency and Presidencians daunting, I was pretty daunted myself, by Presidency! I remember there was this debate on ‘Honesty is the best policy but advertising pays’. It’s still fresh in my mind because I made such an ass of myself that day. I stood up, swallowed a few times and sat down, saying ‘I’m sorry’.

But we used to rule Coffee House. Bunking classes was very common. I went to Coffee House recently but it has changed so much. It looks so different that I couldn’t even use it in my film.

On working with Ray, Mrinal Sen, Rituparno Ghosh

Madhu Neotia with Sen

Well, working with Ray, initially, was just obeying him, that’s all. He would say, ‘Scratch your head, look down, look up, walk straight, turn left….’ I felt very… sort of… cheated. But, you know, if you just did what he said, it actually worked out just fine. I think he chose you because of the way you looked, whether you looked the part or not. And then he dressed you up… well, I’ve done that later in my films too (chuckles)!

But after Samapti, when I acted in a couple of his other films, he wouldn’t tell me anything. He’d say, ‘You’re a pro now’.

With Ritu (Rituparno Ghosh), it’s very different. Because usually Ritu and I share our stories and screenplays way beforehand. Like the story of Titli, I knew it a long time ago. I knew what I had to do, I knew the story inside out. And we take a lot of things from each other’s houses as props for our sets.

Sen with Gargi Roy Chowdhury, who has acted in Iti Mrinalini

For Unishe April, he had asked me to do up my character’s room. I thought it was a very nice way of getting me more involved with the character.

Mrinal kaka (Sen) never gave specific instructions, to anybody. Never. He would tell us the motivation of the characters. He always talks, explains a lot. He conjures up the back story… very, very different.

On being in James Ivory’s films

I’ve been in only two of his films — The Guru and Bombay Talkie. What I remember about Jim is that there were lots of takes, always, and he’d say, ‘I don’t know what I want, but I know what I don’t want!’

That’s Jim. But that is another way of working, I suppose… if you have the money.

Tapan Sinha used to rehearse. He was the only director I worked with who used to have rehearsals.

On her co-stars

Uttambabu (Kumar) was very helpful. He was not disrespectful at all because I was so much younger… I mean his son and I are the same age. He was very, very co-operative. And he showed me a few things.

In one scene, I was supposed to be very drunk at a party. What I was bothered with was how to get my bag when I’m so drunk. The director said, ‘Forget the bag, you’re drunk.’ But you know, women don’t forget their bags. Uttambabu came to the rescue. He said, ‘You just fumble around and I’ll say, ki chai, ki chai and get the bag’. And he just solved the problem!

As a young person, things that I would be scared to tell the directors because they would think I was enchore paka, I would go and tell Uttambabu. And he would help.

On looking at acting differently after becoming a director

Yes, that’s true. Because you know, the kind of acting we had to do at that time, I think that’s what ultimately made me what I consider a rather bad actress. Because we were constantly expected to flirt with the audience, rather than try and explore the truth in a character. We were expected to be coy. Which is why I enjoyed acting in comedies much more. Because, one’s sense of timing was tested, and I didn’t have to be as coy as usual….

Once I had fulfilled this zid that I had developed because I was told that I wouldn’t make it big, I thought I can’t keep acting in films where I keep saying the same lines over and over again — “Ma ei biye bondho koro!” I had had it, up to here (points to her chin). So, I decided to write a short story, which ultimately became 36 Chowringhee Lane.

On Iti Mrinalini being an ‘arthouse’ or a ‘commercial’ film

Actually, Iti Mrinalini is the most commercial of my films. After The Japanese Wife, I was a little worried about how people would react.

This film was commercial because it was the life of a star in commercial cinema. So, not only did I have to have the playback songs that were an essential part of filmmaking in the ’70s, the filmmaking itself had some synergy with the kind of movies that Mrinalini used to actually act in. I deliberately used some zoom shots, which are not used anymore, but were used in the ’70s. I also used a bit of diffusion….

On daughter Konkona

Aparna Sen at The Conclave on Monday evening. Picture by Rashbehari Das

Over the years, she’s become much more confident. But you know, she was four when she first acted in a film with me, in Indira. There was this character of a little boy and they had lined up three boys and their parents. But one had fever, one started crying the moment the camera was turned on and the third set of parents fought between themselves and went away! So, the director asked me to bring Konkona. And she did her own thing, totally unaware of the camera.

That has remained, the ability to completely grab the screen. But I don’t know when she prepares for a role. For Mr. and Mrs. Iyer, of course, she had to be coached to get the accent right. Usha [Uthup, who sat in the front row] helped, and Konkona also went to Chennai.

She then came back and said, ‘I want to use the word ‘toro’, which is how South Indians say ‘thorough’. So, finally we had to introduce a line about Meenakshi’s father-in-law, an endocrinologist, who is very “toro” (laughs heartily)!

On Koushik Sen as Chintan in Iti Mrinalini

We didn’t give him a real Keralite accent, that’s very difficult to understand. And Koushik is a very good actor, he picked it up very quickly. You know, his accent had to be very, very slight. Chintan was supposed to be this internationally acclaimed author, he couldn’t have a broad accent.

A hint of a Southie accent, I find it very sexy (smiles).

On acting and directing in a film

It’s really horrible to have to act when you are directing! I acted in Iti… because it was just so difficult to find somebody else! I do it out of duress. I mean, I’d much rather direct Gargi (Roy Chowdhury, sitting in the audience) or Konkona. And I don’t get the benefit of my own supervision. Constantly switching from director mode to actor mode… it’s very difficult. I don’t enjoy it.

On making films with a message

A lot of people said there was a very strong feminist message in Parama and I can’t deny that, though I don’t like to give out “messages”, I don’t like preaching. But in Parama, I think the message does come through. I remember at the premiere, I was accosted by several young men during the interval, who said, ‘Do you think freedom for women means licentiousness?’ Then, when the film ended, three old ladies came up to me and whispered ‘bless you’ and they went off.

A lot of women, at the end of their lives, feel they have led a life of complete deprivation.

Some messages will emerge. For instance, in Mr. and Mrs. Iyer I set out to make a love story on a journey. Because I felt an external journey becomes a wonderful metaphor for an internal journey. But you know, somewhere along the way, the characters wanted to become Hindu and Muslim. That must have happened because ever since the destruction of the Babri Masjid, I had been deeply concerned about communal harmony. I had written countless editorials in Sananda for years about this.

But I don’t want to preach the message. It is important to touch hearts. When we read about riots, the people in the riots are just numbers. But when you make a film, the numbers get a face — like Bhisham Sahni’s character in the bus. There, a message does come through.

On future projects

Well, I have a comedy in mind, Goynar Baksho, which I have been trying to make for the past 10 years (laughs). I’ll try again now!

On movie endings

In Iti Mrinalini, right at the end, inexplicably, this boy who is running away from his killers is actually her first love. There is no explanation and I don’t want to give one. Or in 15 Park Avenue, when she (Konkona as Mithi) walks into that house, no one knows where she’s gone. I find this more and more appealing.

How about a romantic role opposite Amitabh Bachchan?

No, no… I mean, Amitabh Bachchan is wonderful… this is not a slur on Mr Bachchan. But it’s not like I’m dying to do a romantic role at my age. If it’s necessary for the story, that’s okay….

The audience had their own set of questions...

Is the story of Titli inspired from your and Konkona’s life?

No, no, no, I am sorry to pour cold water on your voyeuristic thoughts, but no, there was no common man in Konkona and my life (laughs heartily)!

How much is Iti... a part of you?

Oh, a lot. Haven’t you figured out who all those men are?! They were all there in my life….

On a more serious note, Iti Mrinalini is very much me, in the sense that I had to tap into my own resources. When you are creating a character you have to use autobiographical elements, not the history of my life, but my experiences, things that have moved me, and not always consciously.

Why was the ending of Iti... so bizarre?

First of all, this thing of life reclaiming somebody who had decided to commit suicide has been done to death. I didn’t want to do that. In the film, the characters talk about the random nature of life. I mean, Mrinalini had wanted to control everything around her all the time, she had even wanted to control her exit. But life has its own way of moving, of being completely indifferent to thoughts and emotions of individuals.

People say you are a far, far better director than actor…

I agree! There’s no argument whatsoever on that.

and some more..

Aparna Sen made time for a quick chat with t2...

Aparna Sen addressing a gathering in Calcutta on the Nandigram issue in November 2007

You spoke about issues that move you finding a way into your movies. You were very much involved in the Nandigram movement. Can we expect a film from you in the backdrop of what happened there?

No, I don’t think so. Sometimes, I may be deeply concerned about some social evil but that may not necessarily find a place in my film. If I at some stage feel that I can incorporate something in the narrative, then may be…

You said not only filmmakers, other artistes have also influenced you. Any literary influences?

Well, it happens at a very subconscious and subliminal level, so I wouldn’t really know. But definitely Tagore and his philosophy — the propensity to see the world within the individual. Seeing the macro in the micro. That kind of helped me place people in the context of larger issues… an individual predicament or pain in the context of a much larger world....

If Mr. and Mrs. Iyer gave us a man every woman would want to have, Iti Mrinalini showed us some men women should avoid like the plague…

(Laughs.) Well, Iti Mrinalini has Chintan too! You know, Chintan and Raja (played by Rahul Bose in Mr. and Mrs. Iyer) are very idealised characters… But my characters are never black or white, there are many shades of grey.

What are you reading right now?

Oh, I actually read many books at the same time. I’m reading one (Haruki) Murakami — The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle — then one by Ha Jin, I’ve also just picked up Amitav Ghosh’s latest (River of Smoke) and there’s this book on Rabindranath that I plan to start too. So, I tend to read four or five books at the same time… very weird, I know, but they are in various places… one in the bathroom, one on the bedside, one in the car….

Samhita