Calcutta, Nov. 5 :    Calcutta, Nov. 5:  Today, Jyoti Basu ceases to be Bengal's chief minister after a 24-year reign. He spoke to The Telegraph on his successor, on life after retirement and on granddaughter Doel whose advice he sought before deciding to step down. Basu is India's first politician to retire while in power. Question: Finally, it has happened. No more rushing through an evening with the thought at the back of the mind that you have office tomorrow? Basu: Yes, it has indeed happened, no more going to office at Writers'. It could have happened earlier had my party accepted my proposal for retirement one-and-a-half years ago. Q: In retiring, you have become a rare Indian politician to relinquish office when you could have clung on to it for some more time? Basu: The post of chief minister was given to me by my party, by the Left Front, with the definite understanding that I will serve the people to the best of my abilities. I did not seek the chair. For the past couple of years I have been feeling that I cannot do justice to the work of chief minister because of my poor health. My point is that if I had not hankered for a chair 24 years ago, why should I hanker for it now. I have retired because I was finding it difficult to serve the people as much as I should. Thanks to my poor health, I was forced to spend less and less time in office, about one to two hours in the morning. You cannot hope to oversee the governance of Bengal, where seven to eight crore people live, spending so little time in office. Q: How would you like to be remembered - Jyoti Basu, a politician who showed how to give up power? Jyoti Basu, the emblem of Indian communism? Or, Jyoti Basu, the best prime minister India never had? Basu: These are your views, and I have no comments to offer. But let me tell you, history has no reason to remember individuals. And, it does not . Q: How would you sum up your 24-year innings? Basu: I was asked to do a job by my party. I tried to do it with utmost sincerity and earnestness. The innings you're referring to is a collective one, which witnessed achievements in many areas as well as failures in some. The new chief minister, the party, the Front, I am sure, will strive to better things in the days ahead. Q: Let us imagine a situation: they have indeed done their best, yet the CPM, the Front do poorly in the elections. Responding to their demands, Jyoti Basu emerges from retirement to pick up the reins again, even if for a short while, to put things back on the rails? Basu: No, no, and no. There is no question, I repeat, no question of my returning to any kind of office. The situation you are talking about is absolutely impossible, because I have no doubt the Front will be re-elected for a sixth term. Q: Your voluntary retirement has sparked off a debate: should not a politician holding office either in government or party retire after reaching a certain age.What is your opinion ? Basu: My view is unimportant. I have retired on the grounds of ill health. But, it is true, in our party, we have tried to look at this issue a few times in the recent past. We have tried to find out whether we should retire from the positions we hold in the party or the government... (smiles) As you can guess, our discussions did not lead to any unanimity. However, we broadly feel that you can continue as long as your health permits, your brain functions. A communist works for the people, he does so till the last breath. Q: Talking about yourself... ? Basu: As I said earlier, I am not leaving politics. I have been a party wholetimer since its inception. I will make myself fully available for party work. Why, if my health permits, I will try to be fully involved in the campaign for the elections coming up in another six months. I have asked them to find out if we can use a helicopter for campaigning. I will be visiting the party office on fixed days every week. I have to go because my comrades are there, I may help them in many areas. They (party) are now working out the modalities. Q: If you were to take a self-critical view, what, according to you, are the party's negative aspects ? Basu: I will be frank. Our people are showing complacence in some districts where they have become detached from the people. Earlier, when our party was small, the cadre used to be in constant touch with the people on a daily basis. We would be fully aware of their needs, aspirations, anguish, struggles. We would deal with them in the proper way, listening to them, their criticisms. We would not always be in a position to mitigate their problems, but we would be honest and tell them about our inability. In many areas, we have stopped going to the people, listening to their woes, their criticisms. As a result, we have become weak. The sooner we correct the situation, the better. Q: Which areas are you talking about? Basu: I have to admit that the party has become weak owing to intra-party differences over issues in North 24-Parganas and Calcutta. We have set up a committee to look into the issues at stake. I am also a member of the committee. In North 24-Parganas, they were divided on participation in a Central government. Things are improving and the debate on participation is behind us because we have been able to address it in last month's Thiruvananthapuram conference. Q: Where the Jyoti Basu line finally triumphed ? Basu: (A quick smile) No, no, no, there is no such line. That is your view. All that we have is an updated party programme and I am very happy about it. I had said something (favoured participation in a Central government) in 1996, but I had been in a minority which had lost. Yes, I had called it a 'historic blunder', because I always thought that we could do a lot more for the people by running a government at the Centre. I had also felt that in the present times it is difficult to oust an elected government from office without paying a political price for it. However, they said 'it is a closed chapter'. But it was proved later that the chapter was not a closed one. Even though I was in a minority, I did not start regarding those who voted against me as my enemies. Why should there be bitterness, this is not the way to build a communist party. Q: Those who had voted against participation now understand that they had committed a mistake ? Basu: (Smiles) Yes, of course, they have learnt from their mistake. Earlier, we had this section 112 in our party programme which only visualised participation in a state government. But we changed its wording - I cannot recall the exact words - at Thiruvananthapuram, so that there is no problem in future on participating in a Central government. Our experience shows that it is possible to remain in power with the help of the people, as we are doing in Bengal, Tripura and Kerala. See, the point is we must be able and receptive to change. Earlier, we used to tell the people, 'give us your votes, we will articulate your grievances in Parliament or the Assemblies'. Now, we should be able to change our slogan and say, 'give us your votes, we will form the government'. Q: Do you think history will be so kind as to give the CPM a third shot at the Centre ? Basu: (Laughs) It is very difficult to say. We had a big opportunity in 1996. The Congress then would not have withdrawn support as easily as it did in 1997-98. However, the participation issue is back on our agenda. We have to work towards re-forging the third front. Our party resolution is that we will have a general understanding with the Congress whose candidates we will support in states where we are not a major force. Besides, there are many NDA allies who are not communal and can be persuaded to join a future third front. Q: What time have you (the CPM) given yourself for reviving the third front? Basu: No time-table, because the job is difficult. We have to take into account the rise of the BJP as well as the fact that we need like-minded allies in different parts of the country. Janata Dal, AGP, Laloo Prasad Yadav, Mulayam Singh Yadav... we are in talks with many people. But it is very difficult this time. Q: The job will be easier if only Atal Behari Vajpayee steps down? Basu: (Laughs) Vajpayee had called just now (last Friday). He said he had learnt from newspapers that I was retiring. We exchanged health notes... I told him that you are still a young man. Q: Now that you are quitting, leaving a level playing ground, suddenly it seems there are too many leaders in the CPM? Basu: There may be some, but I cannot comment on them. Q: You were like an umbrella? Basu: As Marxism says, individuals do play a role, but up to a point. I played my role to the best of my abilities, with a lot of help from the party, the organisation. They are also critically important. My successor too will play the role being assigned to him. Q. How do you describe Buddhadev Bhattacharya? Which of his qualities impress you most? Basu: He is going to be a fine leader. He has blossomed in politics after his induction into it through the Sixties' student movement. He has seen struggles from a close range, has lost and won elections. He understands the nuances of parliamentary politics very well. People will say Buddha is only interested in stuff like culture, but that is not true. Q: What is not true ? Basu: You people (newspapers) have no idea how he has changed in the past two years. Go and find out from the chambers of commerce how well he is handling complex subjects. Even before becoming deputy chief minister, he was carrying out very important tasks. Not very many people know that it was Buddha who took the initiative in information technology after we called and told him that we are already late, you take charge. He gets things done. Q: Do you see any resistance to the change in the face of the government? Basu: No. Buddha is acceptable to the people, the party, the Front, the industry. He talks, he mixes with people, he is open to ideas. Please give him time. It is unfair to expect him to do in six months what I could do in 24 years. Anyway, we will be around to help him. Q: Won't the party expect Buddhadev Bhattacharya's government to tackle the growing popular disaffection with the government in rural Bengal? Basu: I don't agree that there is growing public disaffection in rural Bengal. What gives you the impression that rural Bengal is not with us? Newspapers like yours are trying to project such an impression on the basis of the unexpected outcome of the Panskura by-election. The outcome is still a mystery. The newspapers are not writing about the role of money and muscle-power being used by the opposition in rural Bengal. I don't know how my party was also in the dark. However, all that has changed now. We are holding regular all-party meetings. Q: Is the CPM going to split? Will people like Subhas Chakraborty, who are known to have been cornered in the party as well in the government, stay put or quit? Basu: If newspapers had their way, the CPM must have split many times by now. Tell me, where will they (people like Chakraborty) go? What is the future outside, except for a few photographs or news reports in papers? I don't think any of them will leave. Well, a few individuals may, but that always happens. Q: There is a feeling that the CPM's new-generation leadership is not as modern as Jyoti Basu to address Bengal's problems in the contemporary context. Basu: It is a wrong impression. People like Buddhadev, Anil (Biswas) or Biman (Bose) are all realistic people. They are Marxists, therefore scientific in approach and attitude. (Smiles) If you sincerely believe that people, and not God, make history, I suggest have trust, give them a little time. Q:A generation of new voters who have come into existence in the past 24 years are believed to have turned away from the Left - what is your opinion? Basu: That is why I tell my party to ensure that we don't lose touch with the people. Many may think that we will win elections or popular support on the basis of our performance. As I see it, performance alone cannot be a factor, otherwise, we should have won the Calcutta civic poll, considering what we have done for the city. Therefore, we have to look at other aspects as well. The new voter has to be viewed in a different context - that of unemployment, capital and talent outflow, technology, all-pervading television culture, media hostility and so on. So, we have to constantly wage an ideological battle to touch the heart of the new voter. Q: After retirement, you are going to have some free time - how are you going to use it? Basu: I do a great deal of writing, the demand for which I am sure will increase in the days ahead. I don't get to watch films, but I manage to read. Q: What are you reading now ? Basu: I am reading the translated works of a Portuguese author. I can't recall the name, but I'm told he is quite a literary figure. Buddha has given me the book. In fact, I get most of my reading material from Buddha. O khub pare-tare, khub boi-patra, natak, chhabir khabar rakhe (Buddha reads a lot, besides, he keeps himself abreast of new writers, films and plays). Q: Will you be travelling? Basu: I hope to. They (the party) were asking me to visit Hyderabad (in connection with party work), but I cannot undertake a tour right now. Let's see. Q: You love to watch plays - you had dropped your official plans and gone to watch your granddaughter Doel on stage? Basu: (Leans forward, face creasing into a big smile) Aha, Doel. Mark my words, she is going to evolve into a very fine actress, and I am saying this not because she is my grand-daughter. Find some time and go and watch her act, she is incredible. Q: You are extremely fond of her -- how did you break the news of your retirement to her? Basu: Tui aamar ekmatra bandhu re, tui-i bol, aami retire korbo na? (You are my only friend, you tell me what you think of my decision to retire). Q: What did she say ? Basu: She clapped and said, 'Dadu, tomar to sharir kharap, tumi jadi retire karo tahale thik aache (You are unwell, it's okay if you retire). I have promised her that I will take her to the swearing-in function on Monday. Q: You stopped the move to preserve your chair. But they are thinking of a statue and such things. How will you stop that ? Basu: Just imagine what an absurd idea it was (preserving the chair). I have told them not to do anything to deify an individual. Talking about statues, let me tell you an anecdote on Deshbandhu Chittaranjan Das and his widow Basanti Devi. When some people installed a statue of Deshbandhu and tried to get Basanti Devi to inaugurate it, she declined, saying, 'What good is a statue, except for being another place for bird-dropping.' I hope you understand what I mean.